NCTFG Podcast Episode 2 Transcript – Charlene Zorn & Ernest Watts
NCTFG PODCAST EPISODE 2: PARTNERING WITH REGIONAL TOBACCO CONTROL MANAGERS TO BUILD A TOBACCO-FREE GENERATION
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, David Willard joins us to discuss the importance of local involvement in tobacco control efforts. Willard highlights the significance of building partnerships with youth organizations to effectively reach and educate young people about the risks of tobacco and vaping products and emphasizes the need for consistent messaging and creative strategies to foster a tobacco-free generation, showcasing successful community engagement as a key to achieving public health goals.
Looking to get in touch with your Regional Tobacco Control Manager? Visit https://tobaccopreventionandcontrol.dph.ncdhhs.gov/about/localtpcgroups to learn more!
Follow NCTFG on social media! @TobaccoFreeNC on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
AUDIO TRANSCRIPT
[00:13] Megan Faber: Welcome to an episode of the North Carolinians for a Tobacco free generation podcast. I’m your host, Megan, and in each episode, we interview an expert or professional in the field of tobacco control and prevention, asking about North Carolina policies and their work to prevent the initiation of tobacco use and to educate the public about the harms of commercial tobacco use. Whether you’re curious about the landscape of tobacco prevention in North Carolina or you’re well versed in this topic, you’ve come to the right place. Join us as we learn more about tobacco use and prevention and connect with local experts in North Carolina. Today, we get to hear from Charlene Zorn, a parent advocate from New Hanover County, North Carolina, with a powerful story about her son Solomon, as well as Ernest Watts, the region eight tobacco lead with the tobacco branch in the Robeson County Health Department. In this episode, we interview Charlene and Ernest and talk about their work to prevent youth e-cigarette use across North Carolina and the entire country. [01:23] Charlene Zorn: My name is Charlene Zorn, and I am a parent advocate. [01:26] Ernest Watts: My name is Ernest Watts, and I am the region eight tobacco lead out of North Carolina Department of Public Health. Region eight is the nine counties which represent the southeastern part of the state. [01:40] Megan Faber: Thank you both so much for introducing yourselves. We will start off Charlene with you if you don’t mind sharing Solomon’s story. [01:50] Charlene Zorn: On June 17 of 2023, my stepson Solomon passed away from vaping. He had gotten sick in March of 2023. Initially, we thought it was a severe cold, bronchitis. After numerous checks, astrays, and antibiotics and steroids, they referred him to a pulmonologist at the Nunley pediatric clinic with Novant and did a pulmonary function test and did a chest x ray. And the pediatric pulmonologist, Doctor Kravitz, immediately knew that Solomon had been vaping. She said she could tell by looking at the x rays and the pulmonary function test. He had what was called popcorn lumps. Over those next several months, she treated him with different antibiotics, different steroids, started nebulizer breathing treatments, tried everything, and unfortunately, things never got better, continued to get progressively worse. And during that time, he was missing more school. He was having more problems breathing. He gained a large amount of weight from all the steroids. It appeared that he had started to develop sleep apnea. We were having him sleep propped up, and he was still, like, gagging, coughing, not being able to sleep through the night. He got to where he couldn’t walk to and from the bus stop. He missed a lot of school. So we went from a really healthy kid who had played football 7th and 8th grade, played football as freshman year. Not as much vigor as he had previously had. Come to learn that it was from the vaping, you know, that he had started vaping very end of 7th grade, early 8th grade, with some of his friends. And unfortunately, he was the person that got the effects of it the worst. He wasn’t vaping a lot. It was minimal. His dad had caught him with a vape once and had a conversation with him, took the vape away. Unfortunately, never thought anything else about it till we found out that he was sick. So over that time, we went to the point where some days he couldn’t even walk across the house. He was just too out of breath. On June 16, he collapsed. His dad found him that morning when he got home from work. And he had spoke to him about 30 minutes prior and found him face down, unconscious, not breathing. Started chest compressions and rescue breast, called the paramedics. I got to the house, and they worked on him for about 77 minutes before they got him stable enough to transport him to the hospital. During that time, he coded five times. By the time we got to the hospital, there was no brain activity at all. They ran CAT scans, mris. They told us that the next 24 hours would be crucial to see if they could cool the body down, get the brain to start waking up, show some signs nothing happened. Things just continued to get progressively worse. They tried all sorts of medications. They were cooling his body down. His kidneys started to shut down, and dialysis was not an option. They told us if we had started dialysis, that he wouldn’t survive the dialysis. So here comes the following day, and doctors come in and tell us that we still have no brain activity. Obviously, we knew the kidneys were not working and that we had to make a decision that afternoon, with our family around us, we had to take our 15 year old son off the ventilator and watch him die. After the fact, getting to know his pulmonologist pretty well, she had said to me that he would have needed a complete heart lung transplant to survive. She’d actually seen him the Monday prior to him collapsing and had done a new pulmonary function test, tried to get him to walk five minutes, and he wasn’t able to. Then after about two minutes, she had to sit him down. The following day, she had had a CAT scan done and sent us a text showing that he was in congestive heart failure, that his heart was surrounded with fluid, and that he had fluid on three places on his lungs. He was supposed to see the pulmonologist the Monday after he passed away. You know, people are always like, oh, well, Solomon must have been using drugs. Every drug screen they ran, every tox screen was negative. There was never any illegal drugs in his body. He was not using drugs, even though that’s what people would like to believe is 100% from the vape. He admitted that he tried using a weed pen once and using a dab once. But again, that was in the very beginning. And all those months he was sick, all the tox screens he ran, every single one was negative. So here we are 14 months later, and we still have no answers to how could this be different? What could have we done as a family? What could the society do to change the whole situation? [07:26] Megan Faber: As a parent,Charlene, I’m curious what did it look like in the schools? What was the communication like from the administration, teachers, et cetera, to parents about vaping in schools? Was there any communication at all? [07:43] Charlene Zorn: Minimal to none. New Hanover county schools, if your kid gets busted with a vape, doesn’t do a whole lot, sometimes have to spend a little bit of time with the school nurse. We need to do more. And it’s not just here in New Hanover, it’s statewide. Ironically, my 34 year old son is a schoolteacher in Wake county, and he talks about how the issues they have at the high school. He teaches that and previously taught at a middle school. One of my older stepdaughters is a teacher in New Jersey, says the exact same things. The school system, I understand they’re there to educate our children, but they’re also responsible for protecting our children. They’re not putting the required, what should be the required effort into making sure they’re protecting our children at all costs. We are handing them our children, saying, you’re responsible for protecting my children? Basically from eight to five or eight, you know, seven to three or whatever it is, and they turn the other way. They don’t walk in the bathrooms because they don’t want to deal with the vapes. They’re not looking. Onslow county also are putting vape detectors in all their middle and high schools, so that way they have a better chance of catching the kids. It needs to be aggressive monitoring, aggressive enforcement, and aggressive education. Here in the county where I live, I know of a situation where fourth or fifth grader got busted for stealing her mom’s vapes, taking them to school. She wasn’t using them. She was selling them. She was the dealer. She was selling them to her friends. They called the dad and the stepmom who came to get that child, and all they did was handed them back the vape. They didn’t any consequence to the child at all. They just said, okay, please talk to your kid. That’s not going to resolve the problem. [09:43] Megan Faber: I completely agree. That combination of education, awareness, and monitoring and bridging any communication gaps between home and school is so, so important because as you said, these kids spend, what, 8 hours of their day at school. They should be expected to be safe there and in more ways than, you know, what’s expected. Yeah. [10:06] Ernest Watts: There needs to be a comprehensive policy on where the confiscation goes from the state. Too much is left up to the local board of health. [Yes]. I have one county that has a big drawer with every vape they’ve ever confiscated because they’ve been told if it’s a controlled substance in there, they can’t destroy it because they’d be destroying evidence. Well, it’s just sitting in a big drawer, which, you know, at least they got away from the kids. But we need a comprehensive policy from the state saying all vapes are confiscated and they’re not returned. And again, most of the schools I work with let me come in and they talk, but I speak to so many students, so many student resource officers and teachers that do not get the support from principals or boards of health that have the wizard of Oz syndrome. Nothing to look here. Everything’s okay. It’s kind of like, and I’ve seen it with individuals that if their child has a problem, they take it as a reflection of their child raising skills rather than recognizing, let’s deal with the problem. This is not a you problem. This is a we problem. [11:32] Megan Faber: What advice do you have for other parents who may suspect that their child or children are using e cigarettes? [11:38] Charlene Zorn: Don’t wait till you suspect it. That’s the first mistake. If you wait till you suspect something, you’re going to be where we were. Go through your kids stuff. Look for things that are at a place that seem abnormal. I heard of somebody whose son left for the military and they were cleaning through their kids stuff and found some edibles that thank God, their younger child did not get into. They found a vape in the kids church shoe. Look in your kid’s backpacks. Look in the car when they’re driving your car. Don’t wait till your kids in 7th and 8th grade to start talking to them. Doctor Kravitz, who is Solomon’s pulmonologist, talks to every child seven and up differently. Now she starts talking to children at seven years old about vaping. Continue to have the conversations. Don’t let it be one and done. Make sure they understand who the parent is. You know, I hate to say it, nothing was worse to me than my mother going through my stuff. Growing up, we did not have the kind of things these kids have access to now. You know, we didn’t have social media. We didn’t have the ability to swipe on our phones and have something show up at our door the next day. It is too easy. I mean, heck, how many times have you heard of a little kid ordering hundreds of cookies on Amazon accidentally because they were talking to Alexa? You have to protect your children at all cost, no matter what you’re doing. [13:03] Ernest Watts: The greatest responsibility you are given is as a parent is to raise a child. It’s more important than your job. More important, more money that you got in the bank. It’s more important than anything. I find it fascinating that people put in hours and hours this time of the year to get ready for their fantasy football draft. Or if they’re a foodie, they spend time and time searching for new experiences with restaurants. And those are all good things. But if we invested that much time in learning about what our children are doing and learning about vaping, the easiest solution is usually the answer, and that’s education. We have more tools for education. Now, again, there are some misleading stuff there, but if you find enough supporting scientific evidence, we parents need to educate themselves. And Charlene and I take that opportunity to try to spread what we know and we have lived through and getting the word out. And again, it’s more important. No one likes going to teacher conferences in that respect, but it’s important to find out what threats are out there for our kids. So education is the first step. And that’s, you know, again, people study on what quarterback to draft for their fantasy football team. They need to put the same energy on the kids and what the kids are being exposed to. [14:36] Charlene Zorn: Absolutely. [14:37] Ernest Watts: And the stress and everything. We need to get our priorities right as parents, there are resources out there, but there are a lot of people that adhere to the ostrich in the sand approach. What I don’t know can’t harm me. And I tell people in that respect, if there’s a stick of dynamite lit under your chair, would your ignorance of the fact keep you from being blown apart? Because that’s the ridiculousness of what I don’t know can’t harm me. That’s an investment. My parents knew where I was and what I did and I’m 67, about to be 68 years old. I know things are different, and I know their parental things have changed. But it’s a responsibility of all of us, even those of us who have grandchildren, those who have no children, to be aware of the situation. And again, the second aspect is enforcement. It’s good to have those rules. Unfortunately, they’re treated like speed limits are more of a suggestion than a rule we need to apply. There’s enough of a problem for the blame to be spread around. It’s just not the legislature. It’s us as aunts, uncles, parents in that respect. No one needs to go through what Charlene and her family’s gone through. There doesn’t need to be another child to be tortured like this. You know, think of all the things he could have done and all the opportunities. Another child. And if anything else, this story keeps one child from picking up a vape, then Charlene’s work is done. But we need to be educated, we need to enforce the rules that are, and we need to get away and be proactive in public health. We have reacted to what’s happened. Now they’re developing vapes that do not have a heated source. They’re like the cool packs you use to keep your hands warm in the winter. You shake the vape and you can vape it. We need to be aware of that. Kids are using it for fentanyl, for cannabis, for any liquid controlled substance can be inhaled for ketamine. And they’ve adapted the vape to look like anything but a vape. It looked like pins, hoodies, watches. Two at the operation paper trail in Onslow, the NCIS found one like, little figure in Mandalorian, the little Yoda looking character. And the other one was the little aliens from Toy Story two. And it had the nozzle for the vape coming out of the back. So to a child, and we’re seeing it slowly working its way into elementary schools. I had a first grader in Robson county with a vape. We had a group of fifth graders that got sick in Scotland county that had nicotine candy. Did they purchase? We had a group of five fifth graders in Columbus county that purchased underage. And when law enforcement went there, the owner said, well, if I don’t sell to them, someone else will. We had a third grader in Pender county that had confiscated her uncle’s vape and was selling puffs on it for $5 a puff. We’re seeing earlier, younger, younger kids, and we’re dealing with a controlled substance. You know, nicotine is more addictive than marijuana, cocaine or heroin, again, because of the dopamine it creates in the brain. And you get a kid on it. And this is, like I said, a billion dollar industry. They got the best lawyers, they got the best ad people. Parents are fighting against them. And now that the marketplace is not a mall, it’s in the mailing system. If you have an Amazon account, a child can order anything, the vape fluids or vapes, all under the family account. [19:06] Megan Faber: Right, and all of the emerging products. I frequently hear people say it’s like a game of whack a mole. Like once you understand one product and you feel like you have it under control, then another one pops up and another, and another. And I recently read an article where they have video games on vape devices. You can like play Pac man, play touch. They’re really gamifying e cigarettes, making it even more appealing to younger and younger people. [19:29] Ernest Watts: In the sixties and seventies. Remember the coupons that you would get off of some cigarettes that would go towards a prize of some type? Free recordings, free cds and things of this nature. It’s the same tricks. They’ve just adapted it to contemporary sources. We’ve seen lower tobacco rates, and the industry has just aimed for young people because they know once they get them addicted, they have them for the rest of their lives, unless they try in cessation. So it’s outrageous when you think about it, that a business would make money off of the backs of elementary and middle school children. [20:14] Megan Faber: Yeah, children who should be learning math and playing outside and doing things that keep them healthy and safe in their communities but as a society, we’re not helping that happen. [20:24] Ernest Watts: So they’re basing it on, and we all went through it in middle school, the need to belong to the group, that need for socialization. And if a group is vaping, that’s the tool they use to form their identity as a young person, to be part of the clique, be part of the group. [20:49] Megan Faber: Yeah. And I think, like Charlene, as you mentioned, like, it was what the kids were doing, it was what your son’s friends were doing. So then it was available and around and normal. It was a social thing. [21:00] Charlene Zorn: And it wasn’t what was done in our home. Nobody in our home smokes. Nobody vapes. You know, I’m severely asthmatic, so anything smoke related is completely out of the picture of my house. Like in my surroundings, I can’t because I can’t, health wise tolerated so. And even that, like, Solomon knew that, he knew how dangerous it was. I mean, he spent many of hours watching me take nebulizer treatments because of my asthma. [21:31] Megan Faber: Right, yeah. I think when it just becomes the social norm, then it’s like, oh, well, I guess if my friends are doing it, I’ll give it a try. And at that time in life, your brain is not processing, like, oh, wait, no, this is going to cause problems later in life. Your immediate thought was, how do I fit into this group? [21:48] Ernest Watts: When I started this job 2012, it was limited just to high school. Now it’s in elementary school. And if you think about how children are being manipulated, it will make you angry. Anger is not going to solve this problem. It’s collectively bringing everybody on board, educators, church members, parents, public health, everybody, because we all have a stake. [22:17] Charlene Zorn: Football coaches, pastors, everyone. [22:22] Ernest Watts: We in Onslow county, they have introduced the Catch my breath program into the athletic department. So all the athletes in high school and in middle school have to go through this six week course talking about the dangers of tobacco and vaping. That’s, that’s, Oslo County has not done anything different than any other county can’t do. I mean, I tend to, to point them out because if they have taken this and ran, and there are two communities there that have already passed zoning laws, Richlands and Jacksonville. So this is a community taking the message. And Charlene spoke to them at least two times, if not more, and recognize that those superheroes are going to come and solve the problem. We have to, and we have the tools and we have to do the effectiveness, and that’s what can be replicated in any county in the state of North Carolina. Again, I’m encouraged. Slowly, but again, we’ve been reactive, because right now tobacco retailers are putting together something to deliver their product to even younger kids. The idea of nicotine candies, and that was part of the, what was found in Operation Vapor trail just sickens you. That anyone would entice children with candies. Usually that’s a predator, but now we have a predator organization that’s doing that. [24:09] Charlene Zorn: You know, if one commander can do it at Camp Lejeune, and I actually saw the blacklist. I have a friend who works at Camp Lejeune who sent it to me. So I saw it, and it brought tears of joy to my eyes when I saw it. But how many other military bases do we have in North Carolina? How many military bases do we have across the country? And most of the people that are going into the military are still young people with brains that are not fully developed. And it’s not just our twelve year olds and up. It’s our young adults in the military. We need to be protecting everyone. [24:44] Megan Faber: Right, aand we can. We can do that. [24:47] Ernest Watts: Traditionally, the military has always, up until the last few years, actually been a supplier of tobacco. [24:55] Charlene Zorn: Yes. [24:56] Ernest Watts: World War Two, I had four uncles that went overseas, that worked on tobacco Farm, never smoked in their lives, came back, and they were all addicts. Up until about ten years ago, cigarettes were part of the MRE meals which were distributed. And Camp Lejeune is vape and tobacco free campus. And slowly but surely their understanding to have their best prepared soldiers and staff, they don’t need them addicted to a controlled substance. [25:31] Megan Faber: What are your goals as a parent advocate to support a tobacco free generation? [25:36] Charlene Zorn: To see the laws of North Carolina change that we match the federal law that you have to be 21 years old to buy a vape, to increase the penalties to vape companies that sell to underage people, provide more education to the schools, to the parents, to the children about the dangers of vaping, to get the laws enforced and not allow the illegal vapes into our country, to put an end to it completely. [26:07] Ernest Watts: Well, there is the importance of policies, but at the same time, enforcement, we’ve only got one synar officer to enforce these policies east of I95. We are looking at alternatives to get movement in that respect. Schools have been vaping tobacco free since 2009. But when I go to the various schools in my region, I always find remnants of vapes in the parking lot where the kids park. So it’s going on. And I know in speaking to student resource officers, which are the law enforcement representatives at schools, the teachers and staff, it’s a losing battle to enforce it. [26:54] Charlene Zorn: I think that it’s also not just worrying about my child, which is why I have become so vocal over the last 14 months. It’s. I could easily lay on my couch, stare at my ceiling, and cuddle with my dog and do that because people would not even think that’s abnormal after you lost a child. But instead, I refuse to allow Solomon’s life to be in vain, that his legacy is to be my voice trying to help save somebody else’s child. So no family has to go through this, and I’m not the only one that has. There are plenty of people throughout the entire world who have suffered major health related issues and deaths due to vaping, especially because they can put other substances in them. And we need to deal with it just like we’re dealing with opioids and fentanyl and alcohol abuse. It all needs to be treated the same way. [27:58] Ernest Watts: Being a representative of public health, people tend to marginalize my message by saying, well, that’s your job. And Charlene is able to show something truly from the heart which is more effective than a brochure or a 30 minutes program or anything else. And we can’t ignore this problem because it will not go away. It’s going to get worse. I’ve seen it in my lifetime. And again, I want to take this opportunity to thank Charlene and the real effectiveness of what she’s done. I mean, we really don’t know the effect of what we do in our lives until later on. And she is well known not just in eastern North Carolina, but the entire state of North Carolina for being strong, for being courageous, and again, not giving up to the idea that she doesn’t want anyone else to have to go through this pain. And that’s the greatest type of love a person can have when they look out for those they don’t know. [29:21] Charlene Zorn: No family ever wants to have to deal with what my family has dealt with. Nobody wants to be making funeral arrangements for their 15 year old child the week after his 15th birthday. No family wants to see goal starting and all your friend, your kid’s friends starting school and playing football. Last year, we went to the opening game for Solomon’s football team. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done. You know, you’re wanting to be there to support your friend, your kid’s friends, but you’re also wanting to get a message across to these kids saying, please, let’s not let this happen to you. Let’s not let this happen to you. [30:15] Megan Faber: As we wrap up today’s episode, we want to thank Charlene and Ernest for joining us and discussing ways to keep our youth healthy and vape free from having conversations with kids to increasing education and changing policy. Our conversation doesn’t end here, though. If today’s topic was particularly interesting or you have thoughts, stories, or questions that you would like us to explore in further episodes, please reach out and follow NCTFG on social media. You can find us @tobaccofreenc on Facebook, Instagram, X, and LinkedIn. You can also visit our website that’s linked in the description below to get updates on upcoming episodes. This podcast is supported by the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services Tobacco Prevention Control Branch and the University of North Carolina’s Tobacco Prevention Evaluation program.