Raul: Okay. Now we\u2019re recording. Today is Tuesday, April 19. This is Dr. Raul Necochea from UNC School of Medicine, the Department of Social Medicine, and I am here speaking to Dr. Venita Newby-Owens. Hello, Dr. Newby-Owens. How are you?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I\u2019m doing well. Thank you.<\/p>\n
Raul: Dr. Newby-Owens graduated UNC\u2019s School of Medicine in the year 1974, right?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: No, not to my recollection. It was \u201973 \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Okay, \u201973?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 \u201973 to my recollection. Maybe my memory is gone. No, but it was \u201973.<\/p>\n
Raul: \u201973. I apologize.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: Anyway, welcome. We are working on the Black Alumni Experience Project, and the first questions that we want to ask you have to do with your origin story, so Dr. Newby-Owens, would you please tell us a little bit about your date of birth and your place of birth?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay. I was born on November the 18th, 1947. And that was in a small town, Elizabeth City, North Carolina. And it was actually on a farm. My parents originally \u2013 when I was born \u2013 lived on a farm, and it was called Weeksville. That was the area. Because Elizabeth City has several \u2013 I guess what you\u2019d call townships, and there\u2019s the city limits of Elizabeth City, which is, you know, the city part. And then outside is a lot of rural area. So the area where I was born was actually on a farm. And it was a\u2013 I guess you would say a small farm. It was about a hundred and some acres.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And my father did the farm. He was the one that was in charge of the farm. That was his business. And we had all kinds of crops and we had farm animals. We had cows and pigs and umm chickens and the gamut. And so that was my beginning, was actually on a farm.<\/p>\n
Raul: What grew in \u2013 sorry, go ahead. I was just curious about what grew in the farm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, we had corn and soybeans and white potatoes and cotton and cucumbers and wheat. Umm It was quite a few things that he grew. And farmers rotate crops \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and so he would do one crop for one year, and maybe then the next year he would come back on that same land and do another one so that it has to do with the types of minerals that are in the soil. And maybe wheat might take umm one type of mineral, whereas soybeans would take another from the soil. And so you don\u2019t want to do back-to-back every year the same crop.<\/p>\n
Raul: Right. And what was your family like? Did you have siblings?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: No. I had no siblings. I was an only child and actually, I believe that my mother was actually in her mid-30s when she gave birth to me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So I was the only child. I was very protected and very sheltered.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah, umm but I had- It was just myself, my mother, father, and my maternal grandmother \u2013 always lived with us because my maternal grandfather, whom I never had the opportunity to meet, died well before I was born. I think he died even before my mother got married.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes, he had a sudden heart attack and died as a result of that.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. When you were growing up, umm who do you remember being the most influential people in your life?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Umm, it kinda depended on what stage of life I was in \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 as to who was the most influential. And I would say when I was younger, certainly when I was on the farm, most important was my mother and father and my grandmother.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Now, I did have other relatives that actually lived across the road from us. Most all of the family on my mother\u2019s side lived right in that same area, so I also had a lot of interaction with my aunts and uncles and cousins, you know, when I was down there as well.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: Did you have a family doctor or another doctor that you met when you were young?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. [slight chuckle] When I was \u2013 I would say probably two, around two years old or so I had asthma. I had asthma severe to the point that there was one episode that I had that started in the early evening and didn\u2019t lift until when the sun came up the next morning.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Now, there was a like, remember, I said it was a rural, rural area. There was a country doctor uh and I do remember his name. His name was \u2013 some names are imprinted on your brain. His name was imprinted on my brain. His name was Dr. Barkwell. And during that time, we didn\u2019t have phones \u2013 we didn\u2019t have telephones, right.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And my father would have to get in his car and go to Dr. Barkwell\u2019s house and tell- you know and tell him that I was sick, and he would then get in his car. Dr. Barkwell would get in his car and come to my house.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So this was the era where doctors made home visits.<\/p>\n
Raul: Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And we were all in this rural area. And so basically, you know you got to know your doctor and have a personal relationship. So, I you know, my family knew Dr. Barkwell and of course, I knew him. And I liked him. He was a nice man. He was very kind, very calm, very gentle. And he would come immediately when my father would go to the house and say that I was sick \u2013 I was having, you know, an acute asthmatic episode. He would jump right in his car. He would come immediately.<\/p>\n
And I remember that night, he came and he stayed uh until late that night because he gave me the three shots of epi. That\u2019s pretty much the limit. After you- And you can\u2019t give it back-to-back. You have to wait at least uh two to three hours in between in terms of giving those shots. And he gave me the three in succession \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and it still didn\u2019t do anything. And at that point you know we were in a segregated community, and actually, to be perfectly truthful, Black people really didn\u2019t go to the local hospital in Elizabeth City unless you really had no other alternative. And then if you went there, it was basically \u2013 for a long time, they would not admit you. If you, if you were really in bad shape, they would treat you in the emergency area and they might let you stay over on a cot or something in the emergency room uh until they could discharge you.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so they, you know, didn\u2019t take me to the hospital. And they stayed at home. And my father and mother took turns rocking me in a rocking chair all night long, and it was something about the back-and-forth motion of the rocking chair, and I could feel the-the air as they were rocking me back and forth, and that helped me to, you know, to get my breath.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And as I said, in the wee hours of the morning, uh I saw the sun -sun coming up. And I had started to ease up a little, and my chest wasn\u2019t as tight, and I was feeling a little better. So that you know that was \u2013 that was typical. I had many of those types of episodes, but that\u2019s the one that I most recall because it was the worst one \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 that I had had. And as I said, you-you know, I never went to the hospital. Never went to the emergency room or anything. It was always Dr. Barkwell would come to my house and treat me at home.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Wow. How old were you with that really bad episode?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I believe I was probably about \u2013 maybe three.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow. Really young.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. I was very young, yeah. I was very young. I was probably about three years old.<\/p>\n
Raul: Can you spell Dr. Barkwell\u2019s last name, please?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: It was B-A-R-K-W-E-L-L. Barkwell.<\/p>\n
Raul: Barkwell. Got it. Thank you. Did you also go to school near Elizabeth City?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, I went to elementary school when I well uh we moved to Elizabeth City when I was five years old \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and they moved to Elizabeth City because I had allergy testing because my asthma was so bad. And it was determined that I was allergic to most everything that was on the farm. I was allergic to [laughs] I was allergic to ragweed, I was allergic to all kinds of – of tree pollens, I was allergic to cows and pigs and \u2013 I mean, just ev-every – everything that was on the farm, I was allergic to it.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so my parents decided that they needed to move to Elizabeth City within the limits, you know, city limits, where you don\u2019t, you know, don\u2019t have all the rural types of elements there.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And that happened when I was five years old. And interestingly enough, when we moved to Elizabeth City, my asthma started to get better.<\/p>\n
Raul: Okay.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And [laughs] and by the time I was \u2013 I would say about maybe nine, ten years old, I wasn\u2019t really having \u2013 having those asthmatic episodes anymore.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, wow. Your family continued relying on the farm, though. You just were not living there.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: My – My father continued to run the farm, yes. That was, you know, that was his business operation, so yeah. He \u2013 well see, with Elizabeth City, that\u2019s a small town, right. So, I mean, where we lived in Elizabeth City wasn\u2019t that far \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 from the farm. Even though it was a very different environment, it was \u2013 it was not very far. It didn\u2019t take him more than about probably 20 – 20 minutes from where we lived in Elizabeth City to get down to the \u2013 to the farm.<\/p>\n
Raul: So then you began your school-age years living in Elizabeth City already.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes, uh-huh. When I started, when I started school, yes, we were -we were in Elizabeth City at that time. Yes.<\/p>\n
Raul: Elementary and high school too?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes. Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: Who do you remember, you know, as your teachers the most?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Umm I can remember certain ones from the time that I was in elementary school all the way through the high school. You know, there were certain ones that impressed me, and ones that I felt were very good, in you know, very good teachers, and they also were very kind and considerate. And so there are quite a few teachers that I remember. And see, the other thing is all of the schools that I went to were segregated schools.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: They were all \u2013 all you know all Black. There was no mixture of anybody else other than just, you know, uh Black.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So the experience was a \u2013 I would almost say like a family-type experience because all of the teachers were Black, and everybody was Black. Principal was Black. And, so everybody took a special interest in each one of us because it being such a small town, everybody pretty much knew everybody.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: You know, even if you didn\u2019t, even if you weren\u2019t what you might say, \u201cace boon coons\u201d with them, you still knew them. You knew their family; you knew where they lived, you know, you – you knew them. So basically, the teachers \u2013 uh they knew one another.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And my \u2013 my mother was a teacher.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so-<\/p>\n
Raul: At your school?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. They didn\u2019t put me in her room, though. They put me, you know, in somebody else\u2019s room, but yeah. She \u2013 she was a teacher in the same school when I started elementary school. She was the teacher, she was always the elementary school teacher, and I was in the same school where she was.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. [chuckles]\n
Raul: Did you start thinking, perhaps, about medicine that \u2013 that young already, or not yet?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, yeah. I was so very impressed when Dr. Barkwell recommended \u2013 when I was having such severe asthma and it really was not controlled with the medications that he had to offer. See, he suggested that I umm go to umm uh well actually over to Duke for allergy testing.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And I saw a lady allergist and her name was \u2013 I don\u2019t remember her first name. I remember her last name, Dr. Deeds. And I was so impressed with Dr. Deeds. She was so nice. She was very uh very attentive. She, you know, she talked to me, actually. \u2018Cause a lot of – lot of – physicians didn\u2019t actually talk to the child. They talked to the parents and got the [chuckles] what the parents thought about things, but they didn\u2019t talk and ask the child what they thought about things, right?<\/p>\n
Raul: [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: She actually took the time to talk to me \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: and \u2013 and to actually reassure me that, you know, she was gonna do these certain tests, and to find out what was going on, and that I was gonna be okay. And she was just, I was just so impressed with her. That\u2019s the best I could say. I was just so very impressed with her. And from that point on I thought to myself, now that\u2019s exactly what I wanna do. I wanna be a doctor like Dr. Deeds.<\/p>\n
Raul: Cool.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And from that point on, that was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a doctor. So even when – I mean, well you don\u2019t necessarily in elementary school, and \u2013 and think about uh \u2013 or , you know, we had what you call junior high school and whatever, you know, you didn\u2019t really think about that in terms of \u2013 well, no, I guess I- No, I have to take that back. I did. Once I got to junior high school, I was thinking about \u2013 when we had elec-, when we could take elective courses \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 I was thinking about what courses did I want to take that was gonna help me to be able to go to medical school.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. Yeah. \u2018Cause I remember in high school when we were able to take \u2013 and we had, and we could choose what track we were on.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 I always wanted to take the science courses. And like if I could opt out of things like civics or something like that [laughs], I always opted out for a science course. [laughs]\n
Raul: Um, so tell me a little bit about what your options were like, um you know, as you were finishing high school.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: My options in terms of when I finished high school?<\/p>\n
Raul: Uh-huh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, there was never a question in my household, household that I was gonna be going to college. There was no question about that. [both laugh] I mean, that was \u2013 that was a given. So I mean really, there was no discussion about that, because that was\u2026that was always, you know, you – when you finish high school, you know, you\u2019re going to college. And I didn\u2019t have any problem with that because [laughter] that was I mean what I wanted to do as well; because I knew that I couldn\u2019t \u2013 couldn\u2019t be a doctor without going to college. [laughs]\n
Raul: Right. Yes. So where \u2013 where did you go? How did you prepare for that next step?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: What when I was in high school?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, [clears throat] I chose to take like um physics, and I mean like we, now we had \u2013 everybody, everybody had to uh had to take biology, just like the basic biology.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But everybody didn\u2019t take physics and the umm higher math courses \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 like geometry and\u2026and algebra and all of that.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So I elected to take those science courses rather than taking civics and, and you know, some of those types \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 of optional courses.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: And um did you know where you wanted to go to college?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes. Uh I pretty much knew where I wanted to go to college, yeah. I had, I had decided \u2013 and uh I\u2019m trying to remember why. I – It must have been because I either knew somebody that went to Howard in\u2026in Washington, D.C. \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and I either, either I knew somebody that had gone \u2013 I think I must have known somebody, but I don\u2019t remember right now who that was \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 that went to Howard. But some, some kind of way, Howard got imprinted in my mind. [laugh]\n
Raul: [laugh] Cool.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Now, um and that was – that was where I wanted to go to college. And so that\u2019s where I went. And, you know, I-I majored in microbiology \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and minored in\u2026in chemistry \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 when I was at Howard. And, you know, I-I toyed around with other ideas in terms of maybe other things other than medicine when I was \u2013 when I was- there, \u2018cause I was exposed to, you know, a lot of different career paths.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But for some reason, I always came back to the basic thing that I still wanna be a doctor.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I even thought about \u2013 \u2018cause we had a law school. They had a law school there as well.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I even thought about being a lawyer.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And, you know, and that seemed \u2013 \u2018cause I always like to talk a lot and um\u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: [laughs] and I was very um very \u2013 I like debating, you know. I like going back and forth on a topic. You know, somebody take their point of view and I take my point of view and we go back and forth on it. So I always liked that. So I did consider being a lawyer.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 but when it all boiled down, I couldn\u2019t get away from medicine. I just – Every time I\u2019d go off on a tangent, I\u2019d always come back to medicine.<\/p>\n
Raul: What year did you graduate from Howard?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: In \u201969.<\/p>\n
Raul: \u201969.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: This is also important: How did you finance that?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay. Initially, I got \u2013 as I recall, they used to have what they called National Defense loans.<\/p>\n
Raul: National Defense loans.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. That\u2019s what they called it.<\/p>\n
Raul: I didn\u2019t know about that.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: National Defense loans. And so they would loan you the money and it was, it was the type of thing where if when you graduated, you practiced in what they call a \u201cshortage area\u201d \u2013 a rural shortage area for physicians \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 that they would, they would forgive your loan.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Like for every year that you practice or whatever, they would forgive a certain amount of the loan amount.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So that\u2019s the \u2013 that\u2019s the- way I financed my \u2013 well, also now, my parents also, you know kicked in some money as well. You know, they used to send me money too. Because with the loan was only, as I recall, it was only $1,000. I think\u2026I\u2019m trying to think. Wait a minute now. Okay, wait a minute now. I\u2019m getting confused. The National Defense loan was during the time that I was in college. That was not, that was not med school. National Defense loan was when I was in college.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay. And that was only for for $1,000.<\/p>\n
Raul: Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So that covered like your basic tuition and not even, really, all of your books because the books that we had were pretty expensive.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Those science books? Yeah, they\u2019re pricey.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. And so my parents supplemented the rest of it that I couldn\u2019t cover with the loan.<\/p>\n
Raul: Tell me a little about what it was like to live in Washington, D.C.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, it was nice living in Washington, D.C. I enjoyed it. [laughs] Really, I mean really, I was a country girl. I had never really lived in a city before. I mean, you know, Elizabeth City is not a city. Elizabeth City is like a town.<\/p>\n
Raul: A small town.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And I had never lived in the city, and it was fantastic. I enjoyed it so very, very much. There\u2019s so much in D.C. as well as the general area \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 it\u2019s so much there, and I really enjoyed it. I still like going back to D.C.<\/p>\n
Raul: It\u2019s a beautiful city.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah, it is. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: When you were at Howard, were there any people who especially encouraged you or, you know, pushed you to, you know keep on working at getting into medical school?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: At Howard?<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: [pause] Well, no, I wouldn\u2019t say they pushed me to go into medical school. See I was, you know I told you I majored in microbiology.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and the chairman of the microbiology area, that came under botany.<\/p>\n
Raul: Hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And there was a lady who was the head of that. Now, she was always very encouraging to me, but I think, as I recall, she was more leaning me toward like clinical laboratory-type stuff.<\/p>\n
Raul: Huh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Umm I don\u2019t recall that\u2026. that she was influencing or trying to influence me. Certainly not in the direction of medicine.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: There was \u2013 there was- no one that I recall that was really directly influencing me in that line, no. Uh-uh. I don\u2019t- I don\u2019t remember anyone.<\/p>\n
Raul: And when it came time to start thinking about applying to medical school, um where did you apply? Why did you apply to the UNC School of Medicine?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Well, I applied to UNC because UNC was always looked at as a very good school. It was a primary referral center. If you didn\u2019t have something that umm was able to be taken care of locally, then you were always referred to either Chapel Hill or to Durham.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so I always looked at both Chapel Hill and, and Duke as being the places that had the people in the know. [laughs]\n
Raul: Did you also apply to Duke?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes. Uh-huh.<\/p>\n
Raul: Did you apply to Howard?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes. Those\u2026those were the three places that I applied to. [laughs]\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: Um Did you have the option of attending a different med school?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: Where did- where else did you think of maybe going?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, well, you know, certainly I had the option of going to Howard, okay?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And I kinda felt like \u2013 at that point that I wanted a different experience. I love Howard, now, and don\u2019t get me wrong, I love Howard, I love the school, I love being there. But I was ready for another experience.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And listen, I\u2019m gonna put it very bluntly. [coughs] I had always been in segregated situations.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I hadn\u2019t, you know – All my schooling was segregated except, well, except for Howard, which was really \u2013 you can\u2019t say that that was segregated, \u2018cause Howard had about everybody in the world there. I mean, they have students from all over the globe, White and Black. So I certainly was, you know, exposed to a multiplicity of people with multiple backgrounds and ethnicities and, you know, whatever was there \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 so that was a very good experience. But I had never been to a school that I would say was a White school.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And whether or not it was true or not, it was always felt that those schools had the better educational experience.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I\u2026I don\u2019t agree with that \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 but that was the, that was the thought.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So I was \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Go ahead.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: I was going to ask you about that. About the reputation that UNC \u2013 the School of Medicine \u2013 had to people who mattered to you, or as you put it, \u201cpeople in the know.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Right. Yeah. Everybody certainly where I was from felt like that Chapel Hill \u2013 when you talk about Chapel Hill, oh boy, you know. It\u2019s like wow, you know. And actually, after \u2013 after me and after I graduated and everything from UNC, quite a few people from my area applied and were accepted to Chapel Hill, and they did that because they felt like that if I could do it, then they wanted to do it too. So a couple of my cousins went after me to Chapel Hill and some other friends. So I think it kinda opened the door for people to say, \u201cHey, well, if she can do it, I can do it too.\u201d<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah, for sure. So, your cousins also ended up here in the School of Medicine at UNC?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Not in medicine, no. My um- This was when my cousin that lived right down the street from me was deciding where he wanted to go to college. This is undergrad school \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 because I had been, you know, to UNC in medical school \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 then he decided that that was where he wanted to go \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013do, you know, this was undergrad for him.<\/p>\n
Raul: Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And also, that was where he went. But, he ended up – he didn\u2019t go to med school, but he ended up in the health care field. He went into health care administration.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so he then became like the director of a hospital \u2013 several hospitals. Before he died, he was in South Carolina as a director of the \u2013 I believe it was Spartanburg \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 Hospital in South Carolina.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow. Huh. It\u2019s powerful to have, you know someone who grew up with you then wind up making it in this career. And then like saying, as you said, \u201cYeah, of course I can do this too.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: You know, you\u2019re the first African American woman that I have interviewed for this project who went to UNC School of Medicine. Did you meet other African American women in your class?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I – As far as I\u2019m aware, I was the first African American female to be admitted to the School of Medicine at Chapel Hill.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I was the first female, okay? Now, it\u2019s my understanding that [clears throat] \u2013 that there were other Black males in a previous class.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yes.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But in terms of females, no. It was my understanding that I was the first Black female.<\/p>\n
Raul: That\u2019s what I thought too. I mean, I looked at the records that we have, and I wanted to be very sure before I, you know, just said, oh my goodness. I am speaking to the first African American woman who went to my school. This is\u2026 It\u2019s a very important moment for me just to take that in.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. It was an important moment for me too when I realized that.<\/p>\n
Raul: [ both laugh] Oh, sure.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I mean, you know, when I \u2026I didn\u2019t know it at first. Like when I was applying and everything, I didn\u2019t know that. I didn\u2019t really realize that until after I had already, you know, gotten there. And that was when I realized that, that I was the first Black female. Yeah. In a lot of ways, it made me feel very honored; very good.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And then on the other side, it kind of put an extra thing on my shoulders, feeling like hey, you know, if I\u2019m the only one, you know, that has been here \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 I gotta hold up the banner. I\u2019ve got to pave the way, so to speak, so that other Black females can be admitted after me. And that did occur.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: There were others that were admitted. In fact, one of the ones that was admitted after me was one that I knew very well when I was at Howard.<\/p>\n
Raul: Really? What was her name?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Margaretia Jackson.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yes.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: [laughs] Yeah. Yep. So yeah, we knew each other, and we were friends, you know, before. So then when she came to Chapel Hill, it was like, oh\u2026 [both laugh].<\/p>\n
Raul: Yay. That\u2019s great. Yeah. That is amazing. Sidebar, I have to ask you later about Dr. Jackson. I did try to get in touch with her \u2013 but and I know she went into peds nephrology, but I have not been able to get in touch with her. Anyway, I\u2019ll mention that to you later. But back to you and your story, tell me a little bit about what it was like to apply to UNC med school. What was the process like?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh\u2026.The process was that I filled out the application and you know sent in all of the paperwork and everything that they required.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and waited to hear back from them. I don\u2019t recall- I don\u2019t recall any other process. And I mean they didn\u2019t call me in in advance like for an interview or anything.<\/p>\n
Raul: Hm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Um, you know, to come to Chapel Hill and interview me. Uh not, not to my recollection. I just waited.<\/p>\n
Raul: I was \u2013 yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Hmm?<\/p>\n
Raul: I was gonna ask you about that. About whether there was an interview.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I don\u2019t recall that there was. I think\u2026I think, I probably would have remembered that. [both laugh]\n
Raul: Right? Yeah, it\u2019s kind of a big deal.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah, I don\u2019t remember that there was any interview or anything. It\u2019s just basically, you know, you fill out the application and then you had the, you know, all your supporting stuff; your transcripts and all of that, you know, that had to be submitted \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 with your application. But other than that, I don\u2019t \u2013 I didn\u2019t hear back from them anymore until they would let me know what their decision was.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Who were you closest to here in the med school, including students and faculty and maybe administrators?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Ummm\u2026. [coughs] I\u2019m trying to remember, and I\u2019m kind of embarrassed that I don\u2019t remember the name of \u2013 they assigned me an advisor.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And he was a physician, and his last name started with a S, and I cannot bring it back \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 to my mind to save my life. I had thought about that and I\u2019m trying to think of what was his name.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And he was assigned to me. And he was very nice, very kind. And you know if I had something, you know \u2013 a question or something, an issue or whatever, I could go to him and talk to him. And I believe \u2013 [coughs] if I\u2019m not mistaken, I saw in the magazine that he had passed away.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, I can check that University Archives, who was in the position to be a student advisor back in that time.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. And his [cough] For some reason, I just cannot bring that back. That is a block up there somewhere for that. [cough]\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But he was very good. Whenever I had, you know, an issue that I wanted to talk with him about, he always you know made himself available. And he was very kind. Excuse me. And also, he was the one that I went to during my fourth year as a fourth-year med student. I wanted to do rotations at Howard University. Well, actually, it wasn\u2019t Howard University Hospital at that time, it was Freedmen\u2019s Hospital. Have you ever heard that name, Freedmen\u2019s Hospital? That was the first one \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Older. Older name.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. Freedmen\u2019s was the first uh Black hospital that was built, actually, for slaves. When from, you know, that was during the times that they were freeing slaves and they needed health care.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And it was actually built to serve needs of the slaves. And so that [coughs] it was Freedmen\u2019s Hospital. And it\u2019s a historic place, and I just wanted to be able to be there. Because actually, after that, I was there for that year for my fourth year and after that, they switched from that building and moved into a new building that they had built. And the name then was Howard University Hospital as opposed to Freedmen\u2019s Hospital. So I was actually there, and which I\u2019m so happy that I got to be there the last year that they were in operation.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So he was the one that I went to to ask about the possibility of my being able to do that, that you know I could actually take my fourth-year rotations, you know, at Freedmen\u2019s Hospital. And so he worked it out. And I got approval so that I could do that.<\/p>\n
Raul: Huh. You know, I was also looking at your cohort of the School of Medicine. It was maybe a 60- to 80-person cohort in total, and I remember this was the year \u2013 UNC had this reputation that we would only allow or admit one Black student every year. This is just what I have heard from other alumni I have interviewed \u2013<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: \u2013 until your cohort came along. And that was the cohort that broke all the records with at least five people admitted umm who were not White.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I don\u2019t think it was five, I think it was \u2013 well, no, no, no, no. If your gonna count- Are you counting other people, like of Asian origin?<\/p>\n
Raul: No, I was only counting African American students.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And how many did you say?<\/p>\n
Raul: I counted \u2013 among the names that they gave me from Alumni Relations, there were at least four of you.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay, yeah. You\u2019re right. You\u2019re right. It was four. It was myself and then the three guys.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yes. Ken Banks and Melvin Clayton and Dr. Mack Robinson.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Right.<\/p>\n
Raul: And that was \u2026that was you. That was all of you.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Right. That\u2019s right. Yeah. It was four. Four of us. Yeah. But yeah, as far as I know, in the previous classes I think they only had one. So, I don\u2019t know\u2026 I don\u2019t know what happened for that year you know that they \u2013 I guess they decided to change things, and\u2026 and they admitted four.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And with a Black female in that group. [laughs]\n
Raul: I know. That was a very important first.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: I have to confirm this, but I interviewed \u2013 a couple of weeks ago \u2013 Dr. Sampson Harrell. Umm–<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I knew Sampson. He\u2019s a good guy. Good guy.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yes. He is. And one of the things he told me is that \u2013 so he came, I think, in the class before you, or two classes before you. And one of the things he was interested in doing was in changing this, you know, reputation that we had and in getting more Black applicants to apply to UNC; because they really didn\u2019t think that they had a chance of getting in, and it kind of created this self-fulfilling prophecy for the school. So, I don\u2019t know how is it \u2013 at least, the way he tells it \u2013 he got himself appointed to a role with the admissions office where he would be allowed to go in and, you know, talk in schools that were primarily segregated and try to convince the students in those schools to apply to the School of Medicine.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: And he and other students and some administrators were \u2013 beginning in the early 1970s \u2013 a little more proactive about getting more people to apply. I have to confirm all this, but this is one story he told me that made me wonder about the role that you guys, you \u2013 the students \u2013 yourselves \u2013 had in, you know, enticing others to apply just by being here.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. Well, I know \u2013 I do recall that Sampson \u2013 I used to, you know, I talked to him, and he had told me about what you\u2019re talking about as well, that he talked to various students to try to encourage them to apply to Chapel Hill, so, yeah. Yeah. I don\u2019t you know all the specifics in terms of actually how he organized it, or what his plan was in that regard, but I do know he had mentioned that to me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Same question that I asked you before about your studies at Howard: How did you finance your medical education?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Um, I\u2019m trying to remember. I think that was the one that was the thing for \u2013 remember I got it confused when I was talking about Howard, and I mentioned something about a loan that was forgiven if you practice in a rural community. That was the one for medical school, was the one in terms of the loan that you would be forgiven if you practiced in a underserved area.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Right. From- It had the word \u201cdefense\u201d on it. That kind of loan.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. Well, [coughs] I think \u2013 now, I might be getting them confused, but I believe the National Defense one was the one for Howard.<\/p>\n
Raul: Okay.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I believe the one that was medical school was \u2013 not I don\u2019t think it was National Defense. I think it was something like \u201crural health development\u201d or something involving rural health and really getting doctors in those rural areas, because [cough] for a long time \u2013 and that\u2019s still the case in a lot of rural areas \u2013 they don\u2019t have doctors there, and they have to travel, you know, distances in order to get health care.<\/p>\n
Raul: Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So I believe \u2013 well, I\u2019m not sure at this point whether or not that\u2019s still in effect or not, but I know it was still in effect for a number of years after I graduated from \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 from, you know, med school.<\/p>\n
Raul: Do you remember in med school facing hardships in your studies or socially? I mean its- It\u2019s a difficult process, and one of the things that the medical students are very keen to find out is whether you were ever made to feel unwelcome in this place.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Um [coughs] excuse me. To be perfectly truthful, I can\u2019t really say that I was made to feel unwelcome because I can remember from the first day that I went there umm they had like a picnic for all of us.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And it was Dean, Dean Taylor \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 that was the, you know, dean of the med school at that time. And he brought down James Taylor and \u2013 uh I forget his brother\u2019s name, and his sister \u2013 all of them were musicians.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And they put on a fantastic \u2013 Oh I mean, I was blown away \u2013 a fantastic concert for us \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and we were out on the campus, and it was in part of the wooded area with the trees, and it was hot. It was in the summertime, right \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and it was hot. And uh \u2013 but they sang. James Taylor sang all his familiar songs for us, and his brother and sister, and I mean it was just fantastic. On that day, I felt very welcome. I felt very good about the choice that I had made in terms of coming there. I was just – On that day, I was very, very happy.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Very, very happy. So, I think that \u2013 and really, to be perfectly truthful about it, I never- I really can\u2019t say that I felt ostracized or anything like that because I mean we would hang out. It wasn\u2019t just like when we would go out, that we would go just with the Black med students. It was, we would go out with a bunch of the White ones as well and we would have a ball. We would all have a, you know, really, really nice time.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so I can\u2019t really say that I was shunned, or people acted like they didn\u2019t wanna be bothered with me, or \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 anything like that. And I really distinctly remember the gross anatomy lab. And in the gross anatomy, you know you have small groups at each, [coughs] excuse me, at cadaver table.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: You have these small groups. And the group that we had I mean\u2013 it sounds strange to say we had fun, but we really did. [both laugh]\n
Raul: Can you say that?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: We really did have fun, because we would be talking and dissecting and somebody would crack a joke, you know, while we were dissecting, and it was a, you know, good experience. That was one of the pleasant experiences that I remember. Can you imagine that, to say that it was a pleasant experience with a cadaver?<\/p>\n
Raul: Not many people have said that to me so far. [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, boy. Like I said, it had to do with the fact that the group that I was with \u2013 we just seemed to gel.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And we really just umm \u2013 we communicated very well together, and we just had a, we had a good time.<\/p>\n
Raul: That\u2019s great to hear. It is hard work, right? I mean, gelling with people that you\u2019re going to be with for four years, it\u2019s a big deal.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: If you hadn\u2019t, I imagine this would have been a really miserable four years.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm. I cannot say that in terms of my classmates, that I can\u2019t think of any particular situations or uncomfortableness or whatever that I had with my classmates.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: My uncomfortableness came as a student when I went on the wards, and I would have to go into the room of somebody that was admitted and, you know, like do the history and physical and whatever. I had some not-too-pleasant experiences in that regard. I\u2019ve had some of them that just, quite frankly, tell me that they would rather see somebody else. And, you know, I said, you know, okay, I\u2019ll go and let them know and somebody else will be in to see you shortly.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But that\u2019s basically \u2013 the way I handled that was I tried not to take it personally in terms of when I say take it personally, I don\u2019t think that it was me as a person that they didn\u2019t like. I think it was me in terms of what I represented who or what class of people I represented that they didn\u2019t like.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so I, I didn\u2019t let that get to me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I just would say, okay, I can understand that, and I\u2019ll go and, you know, let them know and they\u2019ll send someone else.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And that was it.<\/p>\n
Raul: Do you remember families or older residents or attendees ever saying something about this?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Excuse me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: When you say saying something about it, what do you mean? To the individual? Or to whom?<\/p>\n
Raul: Right. Either to the individual \u2013 the patient who was like that, or to you in support of you, or to other you know people in the administration\u2026<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I think it was just like anything else. It depends on who it happened to be and, you know, we rotated on different services \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and different wards and etcetera. And it depended on who it was. Some I have had to, you know, actually take me back into the room with the person who was saying that they wanted somebody else. And they told them that I was the person that was on that rotation at that time, and you know they smoothed it over.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And the person you know then agreed that they would have me to see them. And I remember on other situations on a different service you know where that didn\u2019t happen.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So it kinda depended on who it was and where they were.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Right. Tell me a little bit about people or hobbies or sources of inspiration that kept you steady; that kept you, you know, overcoming any doubts that you might have had about \u2013 it\u2019s a difficult career and the training is tough, so how did you keep yourself steady?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: You\u2019re talking about, now, while I was still in med school, or \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: In medicine.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 or afterwards?<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, in med school.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: In med school.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Umm well, you know well there are always people in any situation that you kind of develop a friendship with.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And there were ones in my class that \u2013 uh, you know, other than the three Black guys and myself, we were always you know close and communicated with each other, whatever, but aside from our group there \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 umm there were friends, ones that I developed friendships with.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And you know it was just like any other friendship. I didn\u2019t notice anything from them in terms of that they didn\u2019t wanna be bothered with me or that they \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 treated me any different than they did anybody else. So, I just you know took advantage of the ones who wanted to be friends, and you know I just forgot about the other ones. If they didn\u2019t wanna be friends, that was okay with me. That didn\u2019t really bend me out of shape. I was from Elizabeth City.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: You know, and I was from a segregated situation.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: The segregated schools that I went to before I, you know, leaving Elizabeth City \u2013 we had second-hand books. We didn\u2019t even get new books. We got the books that were handed down from the White schools. When the White schools got new books, then they gave us their old books.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And that\u2019s what we were used to. And even the band uniforms. I used to be in the band, and the band uniforms were hand-me-downs from the, you know, the White schools. You get to a point where either you\u2019re gonna overcome that type of thing and not let it get you down and not let it bother you to the point that it\u2019s going to hinder you from doing what you wanna do, I mean, or you just roll over and cry or something. And I refused to do that. That\u2019s just not me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And I just took advantage of – There were people who wanted to be friends and who wanted to communicate with me, and you know I liked them, and they liked me, and we got along well; and so, I took advantage of those that wanted that, to have a relationship with me. And those that didn\u2019t, that was fine. It didn\u2019t bother me.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Tell me a little bit about the transition to residency.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Residency was really not bad because I went back to D.C. for my residency.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I didn\u2019t –<\/p>\n
Raul: Where to?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I did a year, as I told you, at Freedmen\u2019s, and then I switched. I was in family medicine when I was at Freedmen\u2019s, right, I was in family medicine.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: But then, I decided that I really didn\u2019t didn\u2019t, I didn\u2019t wanna be in family medicine. I wanted to specialize, so I decided that I wanted to do peds.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so at that point the, I applied to George Washington University for the Children\u2019s Hospital National Medical Center. And so that\u2019s where I did my residency in pediatrics, at Children\u2019s Hospital National Medical Center.<\/p>\n
Raul: Ah. Well. So in that \u2013 peds is a three- or four-year residency?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Three.<\/p>\n
Raul: Three-year residency.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Raul: So back to Washington.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes, uh-huh. Yes.<\/p>\n
Raul: Why peds?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Because I guess that\u2019s who inspired me. I told you when I – That\u2019s what inspired me when I first thought about that \u2013 that was what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a doctor, and I was inspired because I was a young, very young child at that point. And it was so important to me to have a, a female role model who was so very kind to me and just made an impression on my life. And that\u2019s what I wanted to be for other children. I wanted to hopefully be that same kind of role model and inspire them as you know I had been inspired. And so that\u2019s basically kind of why I decided to go into peds; \u2018cause I liked, hopefully, being able to influence children. [laugh]\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. How did you choose George Washington as the place where you did your residency?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2018Cause it had a very good reputation in terms of the Children\u2019s Hospital National Medical Center. It was a national referral center \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and we had helicopters way back in that day that if there was a baby that was born in a community all around in the surrounding area as well as the surrounding states who didn\u2019t have high-tech intensive care for babies that were born, you know, with birth defects or other serious medical issues \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 they would transport them by helicopter over to- to Children\u2019s Hospital National Medical Center.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So I got to see all kinds of things at Children’s that I would not have seen somewhere else. I remember the first child who died on my watch had a disease that was a \u2013 they called it histiocytosis X. And nobody knew very much about it because it was \u2013 it was new on the horizon. And so the child was coming to Children\u2019s, you know, because we were one of the only ones that knew anything about it in terms of what to do and how to treat it, right?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So the child was in and out of the hospital. Well, histiocytosis X is like a \u2013 a blood cancer. It\u2019s kind of like a leukemia, okay?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so the child was on these medications similar to leukemia drugs. And the child would get, you know, be admitted, we would stabilize the child, and the child would be discharged for a little bit and then you know he would be in and out of the hospital. So this particular time, he was admitted, and he started hemorrhaging. And I remember I was running up and down the steps and to the blood bank, which was all the way down in the basement. And he was on the top floor on the cancer ward, and all night long I was \u2013 I was giving him blood transfusions. And as fast as I could get it in, it was coming out. He was bleeding out. And then he arrested. He had a cardiac arrest, and you know I called the code, and you know all the code team came in, and we were working on him trying to resuscitate him. And we couldn\u2019t at that time, we couldn\u2019t resuscitate him.<\/p>\n
So that really, really, really upset me. It really upset me. This child was like 18 months. Eighteen months old. Looked like a baby, you know. Eighteen months old, and I remember his parents were there because when he would be admitted, they would stay [cough] and I was just so upset, I didn\u2019t know what to do. And when he died, I went over to the parents. You know, \u2018cause you have to go over to the parents and tell them that he was dead and whatever. And I just lost it. I broke down and started crying and – and telling the parents how sorry I was that he had passed.<\/p>\n
And they ended up comforting me, you know. And they were a nice, young couple. They were such a nice, young couple. And it just made me feel \u2013 oh, I was just devastated. So anyway, you can imagine that I decided that I did not want to be in oncology. I, you know, that just tore me up too much. And so that was a real experience of mine that stands out vividly in my mind. I can remember the faces, and I can picture them right now in my mind. You know, there\u2019s certain things that you remember \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 because they really strike you, and then there are other things that just kinda float away and you don\u2019t really remember it that well. But this, I really, really remember. I remember that. And that was an experience that I would not have had if I were in another hospital \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 other than Children\u2019s Hospital National Medical Center because he would, you know, had to be at a specialty center just to be able to know what it was, and to be able to get the treatment.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So that was\u2026that was my reason why I really wanted to be at Children\u2019s, and I was very happy and pleased that they accepted me you know as a resident at Children’s.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Can you tell me about some of your most influential career mentors as a resident, and what did they teach you?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: My career mentors?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, I\u2019ll tell you what really stands out in my mind \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 is that I don\u2019t know now, uh because I haven\u2019t been on campus in a long time, but the – our building for the med school \u2013 where we had all of our teaching and everything \u2013 was across the street from the School of Public Health. And a lot of the professors at the School of Public Health would come over to the, you know, the med school and lecture us. And that was where I was first introduced to the concept of public health.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I knew, you know, I knew that public health existed, of course, \u2018cause in most towns and everything, there\u2019s a public health department. And even in Elizabeth City \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 there was a, you know, public health department in Elizabeth City. But I really didn\u2019t know what they did, other than you know give children, you know, vaccinations and things like that. That was basically what I knew. Other than that, I didn\u2019t know anything, really, about public health. And it was through those professors from the public health in Chapel Hill, UNC, that came over to lecture to us that I developed an understanding and concept of public health. And it was from that point that I decided that I wanted to get a master\u2019s in public health because Hopkins had a special program for physicians. And so I decided that I wanted to \u2013 after I graduated from, you know, the \u2013 from medical school \u2013 that I wanted to get a master’s degree in public health.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so that \u2013 that it was the professors from the School of Public Health at Chapel Hill that influenced me in that direction in to, you know, to go in that uh \u2013 in that vein.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And I ended up \u2013 basically, my career was focused on public health and preventative medicine.<\/p>\n
Raul: Hm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And from the beginning, when I graduated from Hopkins with my master’s in public health, I was immediately offered a position at the Baltimore City Health Department. And from there, I started out as a pediatric consultant there.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And at the time that I left Baltimore, I was Assistant Commissioner for Public Health in Baltimore City.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So that was a very, very good experience for me. A very fulfilling experience. And what I\u2019m saying is that the School of Public Health in Chapel Hill were the ones \u2013 the professors were the ones that paved the way and kinda developed my mind \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Hm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 along that vein. And from that point on, I remained in public health. I was pediatric consultant in Virginia, and I ran all the clinics \u2013 the child health clinics in the Norfolk area \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and also did some of the maternal and infant care health clinics as well.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And then after that, it kinda, I was more or less steered in a direction \u2013 I was offered a position as the Director of the Health Department in Portsmouth, Virginia \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh\u2026<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 which was a very, very good experience. That allowed me to actually work with community people. And I mean, there were some dynamic community people who really wanted to bring health care to the underprivileged people and a lot of poor people in Portsmouth \u2013 a lot of people that didn\u2019t have health care and didn\u2019t have access \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 you know to getting any. And so I developed a community group with representatives from the Eastern Virginia Medical School and other people from Portsmouth City Government. And we were able to get a federal grant to develop a community health center in Portsmouth.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh\u2026<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And that \u2013 and that community health center is still standing now. It\u2019s still functioning well and has expanded from Portsmouth into the South Norfolk area, which is adjacent to Portsmouth.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And uh both of those clinics are still functioning to this day.<\/p>\n
Raul: Ah. That is very cool. So just to get the timeline right, then, you were doing your residency and you got a master\u2019s in public health right around the same time after you finished residency?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. It was after I finished residency that I went to get my master\u2019s, yes. Uh-huh.<\/p>\n
Raul: And then you took a career turn into public health.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n
Raul: Huh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Because, actually, as I said, just as soon as I got my degree in public health, the the Health Department offered \u2013 I don\u2019t recall, I don\u2019t think that I applied to the Health Department. But they offered me a position.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so I decided to accept it, \u2018cause it sounded good.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Sounded like what I had been thinking about.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So from there, it just kinda spurred on and blossomed into more and more public health.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah, yeah. So that was – that was one of my most \u2013 I would say \u2013 memorable experiences, was the development of that community health center in Portsmouth. But then when I left Portsmouth and I went over to Virginia Beach, we did the same thing. I developed a \u2013 a community group in Virginia Beach. And so there\u2019s a federally administered \u2013 well, not administered \u2013 federally funded community health center in Virginia Beach that\u2019s functioning now as well.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow. Well, you have the experience to build up those things now, then.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. Yeah. It\u2019s two in two places that I was able to initiate the development of those community health centers, yeah. So I\u2019m very happy about that, and I\u2019m more happy that they\u2019re still running.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Because, you know, you can develop things like that, and it\u2019ll run for a while. And then after you leave, it folds. But I can say that they\u2019re still running now.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: How would you say that a career in public health is similar to and different from a career in medical care?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Oh, well, certainly there are a lot of similarities. I mean, in terms of the treatment of the patients and the medical part of it, it\u2019s the, you know, same.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: You don\u2019t treat people medically different in the community health center or health department \u2013 any different than you do if it was a private practice. And so that – that is the same.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I think the difference is that you are \u2013 well the main thing for me was ensuring that people, regardless of their ability to pay, and regardless to whether or not they had insurance or not, were able to get quality health care. That was what was important to me \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 is that, that, you know, people could get community health services through these clinics that is high-quality care, just like it would be if they went to a private physician\u2019s office because, you know, when we hire physicians just to work in those clinics, we use the same type of qualifications and criteria that, that the hospitals use or you know any other type of facility \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 you know who\u2019s looking at physicians; hiring physicians. So, therefore, we could feel good. Well, I know that the community felt good about it \u2013 both communities. Portsmouth was ecstatic when we, you know, got the money for that center, and we were able to gradually develop it to the level where it is now.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And also, even Virginia Beach, which is a more affluent community \u2013 but even though Virginia Beach is\u2026is relatively affluent, there are pockets of people that are poor \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and they didn\u2019t have health care. They didn\u2019t have insurance \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 you know to pay for health care. So, you know, they needed a community health center as well, so that they could get, you know, appropriate healthcare, just like anybody else.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. Wow. This is so amazing. Again, you\u2019re like another one of these \u201cfirst\u201d people. I had not interviewed a female doc before \u2013<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: \u2013 and I had not met someone who worked for a big part of their careers in public health. So, I\u2019m very grateful to you for telling me all about this. It\u2019s amazing. You probably have heard that the MPH is a very popular option for many medical students at UNC nowadays. They frequently take a break between year two and year three to do this, because they – there is a great deal of compatibility between the skills of a physician and the skills of you know someone who takes something of a broader view.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: But I don\u2019t know when that became more popular. I know that when I got here, this was already something that was fairly common. [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. As I said, that\u2019s \u2013 so thankful that I had that exposure at Chapel Hill in terms of this. As I said, the School of Public Health was right across the street, and the professors and, you know, physicians that were over there would come over across the street to lecture to us as medical students.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And so we got that background, and that\u2019s where I learned, as I said, what public health was all about. And if I had not gotten that, I would not have \u2013 have gone into public health \u2018cause I didn\u2019t know about it. You know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I didn\u2019t know anything about public health. I knew about traditional private practice medicine and that, but I didn\u2019t know about public health. So I\u2019m just really very, very thankful for that introduction through UNC that put me in the perspective of public health, because otherwise I would probably have been a private physician and, you know, opened a private practice for people that had insurance \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 and that pay their bills, and whatever. And I\u2019m just thankful for that, you know, that experience.<\/p>\n
Raul: And how professionally satisfying it must be to know that two big community health centers that you built up are still here and that people just take them for granted. You know, like, \u201cHey, this is ours, it\u2019s here, it\u2019s working.\u201d [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And like I said, I\u2019m just so proud of the one for Portsmouth that they have even expanded. It\u2019s the center that\u2019s there, the original one that\u2019s in\u2026in Portsmouth, and they expanded just over the line into what we call South Norfolk, which borders \u2013<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: \u2013 you know Portsmouth. And, you know, they started one there as well.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. And you\u2019re still in Virginia?<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I\u2019m in Virginia, yeah. I\u2019m in Virginia. Umm-uh, actually, I live in Virginia Beach.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm. [laughs] Oh, man.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Well, that\u2019s after where my last position \u2013 I was the Director of the Virginia Beach Department of Public Health.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: And in Virginia \u2013 I don\u2019t know if you know it \u2013 but in Virginia, there\u2019s a requirement that to be a health director, you have to be a physician.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, really? I didn\u2019t know that.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah. It\u2019s one of the few states that has that requirement; that you must be a physician in order to be a health director in the state of Virginia.<\/p>\n
Raul: Mm.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: So when, you know, I got into this system, you know it was it was very nice. I actually have had experience all over the whole Hampton Roads area. I\u2019ve been the health director, as I said, in Portsmouth, I was health director in Norfolk, I was health director in Eastern Shore, and I was health director in Chesapeake.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I think I\u2019ve covered every \u2013 every health department in all of the Hampton Roads area.<\/p>\n
Raul: Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: I think the only one I wasn\u2019t health director for was Newport News. I was never \u2013 never a health director in Newport News, but I was for all the rest of them.<\/p>\n
Raul: Okay. Wow. This is – This makes me even more eager to \u2013 when we\u2019re done with this whole project \u2013 to invite you back. Well, you and however many of your colleagues we can get back here, these graduates from the \u201870s. Because your careers have been so \u2013 I mean, they\u2019re very diverse. Some people went into hospital care; there\u2019s private practitioners. You\u2019re the first public health professional in the whole bunch. It\u2019s gonna be really something special when we get you all back here together. Oh, man. I can\u2019t wait. It\u2019s gonna be great.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: That would be fun. I would love to see you know everybody again. That would be nice. That would be really nice.<\/p>\n
Raul: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Yeah.<\/p>\n
Raul: I don\u2019t have any more questions for you, Dr. Newby-Owens. That was all I had. [laughs]\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay. All right.<\/p>\n
Raul: And I\u2019m really grateful to you for taking the time to do all this. And what\u2019s gonna happen next is um I will send the audio file to the transcriber and the transcriber is gonna write it all up, and then they send it back to me and I\u2019m gonna check it for accuracy. There may be a few things that the transcriber will not get right, so I\u2019m going to send it back to you to check on that transcript again.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay.<\/p>\n
Raul: Oh, and then I\u2019ll send you the audio file too for your own records.<\/p>\n
Dr. Newby-Owens: Okay. All right. Very good.<\/p>\n
Raul: Let me pause this. Pause recording.<\/p>\n[End of Audio]\n
Duration: 95 minutes<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"